The following are rough notes – view them as “thinking aloud” – pertaining to families closely associated with Samuel Phipps (1762-1854) of Wilkes and later Ashe Counties, North Carolina. What these notes suggest is that there seems to have been an extremely close connection between the Phipps family and some with at least alleged Indian or Melungeon identity. What that suggests, if anything, is not clear, but one thing that is clear is that these connections are extensive and run deep. The following notes could be very greatly expanded with much information of a very similar nature.
Because of county boundary changes, Samuel Phipps, who died in Ashe County, North Carolina, was associated with earlier records in Wilkes County. Although suggestions of a Melungeon identity have been made, they have not been proven. His wife Elizabeth Reeves, however, was said by a descendant to have described herself as “Portuguese Indian,” which can be taken as a sort of coded term for Melungeon.
Whether any Melungeon identity can be directly tied to the Phipps family or not, one thing that is clear is that the family was closely associated with various other families for whom Melungeon identity can be much more readily supported.
As the “Melungeon Studies” blog points out, the book WILKES COUNTY [NC] COURT MINUTES, 1789-1797 by Absher, Vols. 3-4, refers to late 18th century (1790s) deeds involving my great-great-great-great-grandfather Samuel Phipps (Phips) and members of the Reeves (Reves) and Toliver families.
These two families – Reeves and Toliver – were very closely associated with Samuel Phipps’ family. Samuel’s wife was a Reeves, his father-in-law being George Reeves. Samuel wrote an affidavit in support of Jesse Toliver’s Revolutionary War pension application, and Samuel’s grandson Matthew (my great-great-grandfather) married Jesse’s granddaughter Mathursa (Mathursy) Toliver.
As pointed out by Absher, a Wilkes County, North Carolina deed dated 20 Dec 1791 is actually a grant to George Reeves (spelled Reves). This deed mentions the land boundaries of Moses Toliver and David Collins.
The Collins surname is one of those that has been most prominently associated with the Melungeon heritage in this area. This David would presumably be the David Collins mentioned in the New River Notes website (http://www.newrivernotes.com/va/swift/herbertbioa.htm) as being “one of the ‘Melungeon’ Collins.”
Another Wilkes County deed, dated 28 Jan 1797, is from George Reeves (spelled Reves) of adjacent Grayson Co., VA and William Reeves (also spelled Reves). This is for land on the south side of New River (Samuel Phipps lived on the south side of New River), and, again, the boundary lines of David Collins and Moses Toliver are mentioned.
Samuel Phipps (spelled Phips) witnessed this deed, as did Jesse Reeves (spelled Reves) and George “Reves,” Jr.
A third deed, dated 4 Apr 1798, is from a Taylor to another Collins, Thomas Collins. Again, this is on the south side of New River, and mentions the boundary of Samuel Phipps’ land. This deed was witnessed by a Reeves – Jesse Reeves.
Other deeds abstracted by Absher show various members of the Collins family to have been in the vicinity, around what was sometimes called “Knew” River. Vardy Collins is shown as associated with the south side of New River.
A web page titled “Shephard aka Buck Gibson: The Melungeon” (http://historical-melungeons.com/buck.html) refers to Vardy Collins and Buck Gibson as being seen as “the ‘head and source’ of the Melungeons of Newman’s Ridge.
An undated Wilkes County deed to William Reeves (spelled Reves) mentions the land of George Reeves and Andrew Gibson. The Gibson surname in this area has also been associated, at least at times with Melungeon heritage.
The “Shephard aka Buck Gibson” page mentions Andrew Gibson, presumably the same one. The web page’s author appears to speculate, based on DNA and other evidence, that there may have been an Indian trader identity in the Gibson family, something that has also been suggested as pertaining to the ancestry of George Reeves, Samuel Phipps’ father-in-law.
Various online pedigrees refer to George Reeves’ family as having originated in Chesterfield County, Virginia without offering proof. New River Notes (http://www.newrivernotes.com/va/swift/herbertbioa.htm) points out that although “this may be so for Jane Burton’s ancestors” (she married George Reeves), it’s “more likely” that the family descends from a certain George Rives of Surry County, Virginia. He is said to have been born about 1660.
New River Notes says that this George Rives “was an Indian trader and interpreter and it is likely some of his descendants took Indian wives.” Could it be that one of those wives was actually “Portuguese Indian,” or Melungeon? If so, this could explain that identification for Elizabeth Reeves, daughter of the later George Reeves of Wilkes County who married Samuel Phipps.
New River Notes continues, “The Indian legend runs in this New River family too. For instance, Mary Hollifield, 1929: ‘The Reeves are said to come from Portugal. They had brown eyes and black hair. I’ve heard it said that they were part Indian too.'” Of course, the Portuguese Indian reference suggests Melungeon identity.
Children of George Reeves of Wilkes and later Ashe Counties, North Carolina married into the Osborne and Toliver families. Connection with the Osbornes, in turn, connects them with the Hash family. The Hash family figures prominently in the Phipps Eastern Cherokee Applications (ECAs).
Another undated deed to George Collens (Collins) mentions land belonging to John Long. The Long family had a close association with Jesse Toliver’s family through the marriage of his son John H. Toliver to Anna Long.
Yet another undated deed, probably 1793, involves Owen Sisemore (Sizemore) entering 50 acres in Wilkes County. Brent Kennedy’s book on Melungeons claimed that Samuel Phipps’ father was a Joseph who had married a daughter of one of the several individuals named Ned Sizemore, “name lost to history.” Kennedy did not, however, provide proof of this relationship.
Various Phipps individuals late in the 19th century attempted to derive government benefits by proving Cherokee ancestry on the basis of descent from one of the several Ned Sizemores. (See the various Eastern Cherokee Applications accessible via Footnote.) They all were rejected. Later it was believed by at least some of them that they may have been successful had they claimed descent from his wife, not from him.
Another book by Absher abstracted Wilkes County, North Carolina court minutes. That book is titled WILKES COUNTY COURT MINUTES 1789-1797, Vol. 4. In it, she mentions a record of 5 May 1795 that places Samuel Phipps (spelled Phips) on a road commission (to “view” a road) along with two of the Sizemores – Owen and George.
A similar record dated 4 May 1796 has Samuel “Fips” working on a road on either side of Potato Creek, along with George and Owen Sizemore. Another record that appears to have been dated 1797 shows Samuel “Phips” as commissioned to “view” a road along with Owen and George Sizemore, and Jesse Reeves.
The customary suggestion about the Reeves, Tolivers, Longs, and Phippses is that they came from England in the 17th or 18th century, arrived on the East Coast of probably Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia, or North Carolina, and gradually made their way west. Are there alternative possibilities? Various sources refer to descendants of Europeans who had intermarried with Indians living on the East Coast prior to the great influx of settlers from England. (See, for example, http://www.jgoins.com/webtimeline.htm)
Various claims regarding the origins of the Phipps family and based on DNA evidence have been made, but those claims are only as good as the pedigree research associated with them. Generally DNA results are reported in connection with a claimed ancestor. That claim may or may not make sense.
Do we have any DNA evidence associated with an absolutely proven line, with documentation (not just second-hand abstracts) in hand that proves the pedigree every step of the way, and that goes back earlier than around the Revolutionary War? As a direct descendant of Samuel Phipps, my Y-DNA does not seem to indicate Native American roots, but it is ambiguous and I’m not sure how to interpret it. Data from the testing lab seems to indicate a good possibility that my ancestors could have come from Portugal – or from England.
I’ve seen lots of “proof” that ties me back to Joseph Phipps, the Quaker who came from Reading, Berkshire County, England to William Penn’s colony of Pennsylvania in 1682. That “proof,” however, has always ceased to be proof when carefully examined. Documents attesting to that line have always turned out to be something that someone claims to have seen but cannot quite produce a copy of at present – or, more commonly, there’s no documentation at all.
What is the mystery of the origins of this family? Could we possibly actually descend from someone like the “Christian” in the following narrative, found in Jack Goins’ Melungeon website? That page (http://www.jgoins.com/webtimeline.htm) refers to a Spanish explorer in 1539 coming across a group of Indians among whom was “a Christian,” described as “naked and sunburned,” with tattooed arms like the Native Americans he was with. When, however, he saw a Spaniard coming toward him with a lance, he cried out, “Do not kill me, cavalier! I am a Christian!”
Far-fetched? Perhaps no less far-fetched than that Samuel Phipps, whose son Jesse was said to have never seen a cup and saucer until he was married, was only a generation or two away from literate and highly civilized Pennsylvania Quaker culture.
Could a Melungeon family have adopted the Phipps surname? Evidently a number of Melungeons took on surnames of European settlers around them. Could pedigrees and family traditions have been falsified or at least adulterated – or “added to”? Certainly. It happens all the time. One of the most notorious cases of falsified pedigrees involves Sir William Phips (Phipps), first governor of Massachusetts colony.
His pedigree was absolutely falsified in order to connect him with the Constantine Phipps family of more noble birth. We know that. Ample proof exists in print to show conclusively that his commonly published pedigree is a preposterous lie. That pedigree has been called a preposterous lie in print more than once, yet it perpetuates even today.
Melungeon origins for the Phipps family? Who knows. Perhaps not. But it’s food for thought, and I’m certainly not going to adopt a pedigree just on the basis of wishful thinking or “proof” that can’t be produced.
Read the interesting comments posted by readers by clicking on the “COMMENTS” button below.
Phipps Genealogy 
I understand the need to source genealogical data. I don’t understand the “Melungeon” phenom, at all. There is no ‘proof’ to connect those pesky NC & VA Phipps to the PA Quaker Phipps, but connections to Melungeons exist because the Phipps name is in a Melungeon book or some Phipps family kinda sorta knew other, more identified Melungeon-connected surnames. Dark eyes/dark hair?? Let’s apply rules of proof equally.
I believe you’re missing the point. The claim being made here is not that the Phipps family was a Melungeon family, but that other possibilities should be considered. And regarding Melungeon associations, there is much data that just isn’t presented here.
I believe you should follow up with a possible connection to the Melungeon/Indian families. I had some emails several years ago from a gentleman that was researching a “Fips Gibson/Gipson” of Kentucky and he thought he was related to the Wilkes Co., Fips/Phipps families. I may have the emails saved on a cd or floppy but it will take some time to go through all of them.
Have you ruled out Samuel Phipps association with the Phipps of Orange County as it seems the Collins, Gibsons etc., in Wilkes may have had connections back to Orange County also?
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=phippskid&id=I0297
Samuel Phipps was my 5x great-grandfather–>Jesse, Eli, David, David, Oral, David, me. I read online somewhere that we’re descended from Dragging Canoe, of the Cherokee Nation through his daughter, Sara Canoe down to Nancy Ward. I’m skeptical, but it’s a fun idea and a neat story for my kids. One day I’ll look into whether it’s true or not.
Regarding the Reeves family mentioned in this article and questions regarding their lineage – descendants of George Reeves of Grayson VA are a 25/25 marker match to my own Reeves family of the Neuse River area of Wake County NC and the lineage doesn’t appear to be native american, at least paternally. The haplogroup is R1b1b2 which is western European, primarily the British Isles. This Y-DNA would not preclude intermarriages with native american females, but I have done years of research on the family and found none.
Interestingly, these Reeves (of Grayson VA and Wake NC – both families always spelling their name Reves) were primarily literate. This is unusual in the backwoods of North Carolina and Virginia in the middle of the 18th century.
Any supposed connections to the above mentioned George Rives of Surry County, VA are also disproved by the Reeves DNA Project since George Rives’ documented descendants are a different lineage and are haplogroup E1b1b1.
I cannot say without a doubt that these Reeves families had no native american ancestors, but based upon DNA and an enormous amount of research, it is doubtful. They arrived in North Carolina at the time immigrants from Northern Ireland (by way of Pennsylvania) were settling in Orange and Wake Counties which may provide some indication of the origins of these Reeves’ families.
I believe the only specific (rather than general) claims of Native American or Melungeons connections with the Reeves family that I’ve seen have to do with wives or possible wives of Reeves males. In my own line, for example, Samuel Phipps’ wife Elizabeth (“Betty”) Reeves was said by a descendant to have called herself “Portuguese Indian,” but I’ve always assumed that this most likely pertained to the Burton side rather than the Reeves side. There is also speculation that an earlier Henry Reeves was an Indian trader and may have married a Native American woman. With regard to the r1b1b2 haplogroup, the area associated with this group also extends through a wider geographical area than just the British Isles, including part of the Iberian peninsula. Some have speculated that r1b1b2 doesn’t preclude Melungeon ancestry, but may actually support it. I’m not a DNA expert, so I really don’t know. I’m not sure that anyone knows for sure in the absence of more testing.
Samuel Phipps is my gggg grandfather. There IS a story passed down that Elizabeth Reeves told of her Portugese/Indian heritage. There is also a story that one of my ‘greats’ married an Indian woman whom he bought off a ship (not sure to whom this would be referring, as my Aunt is the one who told me the story and she has now passed on). Also, the story of someone in my family marrying Sarah Dragging Canoe is true. I DO NOT like my family being referred to as “those pesky NC & VA Phipps”. We are a hardworking and God-fearing people. If you have nothing pertinent to add to this discussion, why access the site to begin with??? Carry on, pesky Desta Elliott.
Those pesky NC & VA Phipps are MY FAMILY, too, so calm down.
Thank you, I shall carry on–pesky though I may be.
well im of phipps@reeves tollivers@wards, story of dragging canoe is true.
Guilt by association, eh?
I am just not getting the Melungeon designation, at all.
As we know now most all Native Americans in the Mid to South East show DNA Grouping of R1b1. Mixing as early as 1500’s. I’ve been researching the Reeves line for years. It seems that some want no matter what to claim they are of English origin. They may very well be, there are still so many unanswered questions to say without a doubt this is fact. Yet on Ancestry many still just keep copying one tree after another. Yes, just like here, you can find the same name information in England and assume it’s the same family here. Just because of the names appear the same doesn’t not make them from same family. I so wish everyone would just stop copying trees and put on their trees this is just for reference and research. We still have a very long way to go. Most family stories are not that far from truth when indicating where the family originated from. Has anyone even researched the Portugal theory? I believe it very possible. It’s also a known fact now that the Gibson’s, Riddle’s, etc were melungeon with Sizemore’s being found Melungeon, Cherokee, Creek and in other lines. So I’m at a loss why everyone wants their earliest grands to come from England.
You appear to have missed the many posts which preceded that one, which total nearly 2,000. This blog adopted the stance a long time ago that the Phipps (Fips, Phips, etc.) and Reeves (Ryves, Rives, Reaves, etc.) families were likely not of British origins at all, but could have been Melungeon families which took on British surnames. That hypothesis was abandoned quite some time ago. After looking at countless records and an extensive network of interconnected family connections, it has become abundantly clear that both families appear to be of British Isles origins, although they do appear to have probably intermarried at times with individuals of Native American and/or Melungeon ancestry. For the details, you will need to go back through the progression of research over the last several years.